Underrated / Underhated #1
When we first launched Fat Lace online, this was one of the first things we were going to do, an extension from the old magazine days – ‘Buried / Unearthed’ as it was then. But the sheer weight of overrated and overlooked LP’s out there led to a crippling paralysis that had us like Stephen Hawking but with added vocoder for the party people. There’ll be lots of obscure records for Fat Lace to shed light on in months to come, but we kick the joint off with…
Underhated: Mos Def – Black on Both Sides
We could just precis our thoughts on this by quoting what most of the Fat Lace Crew refer to this album as: Wack on Both Sides. But as most modern music consumers don’t know what a ‘side’ is, allow us to expand. We were pretty juiced for this LP after ‘Universal Magnetic’, which of course is awesome. Then Rawkus allowed us into the studio during the recording of this and we saw Mos noodling around with 88 Keys and we knew it was all going to go tits up. History proved us right. Occasionally, you hear fans opining, perhaps after throwing up all over ‘The New Danger’, that ‘Mos Def hasn’t made a good album since ‘Black on Both Sides’. That sentence is almost correct, but is entirely correct if you remove the last 5 words from it. It’s an LP that “will endure for many years” according to the official review at Amazon by Celine Wong. Or Celine Wrong as we’ll now be calling her (in addition to Celine ‘Dead’ Wrong and ‘The Wong Nigga to Fuck With’). Let’s be generous and look at the pluses: ‘Ms. Fat Booty’ is nice enough, but only because of Aretha. ‘New World Water’ is quite clever and well-produced. ‘Mathematics’ adds up. That’s it. It leaves an awful lot of filler, lots of which is on some misconceived mumbling soul bullshit. Rawkus, we know you’re reading this. Who told you ‘Umi Says’ was a good idea for a single? Frighteous. And as if that isn’t enough, he records it again on ‘Climb’. He might then have some good points to make on ‘Rock ‘N’ Roll’, but the fact that he chooses Fishbone over the Rolling Stones tells you absolutely everything you need to know. There’s Def and there’s deaf, and every good B-Boy should know the difference. Still, he was alright in ’16 Blocks’, wasn’t he? The only good 16 he’s dropped in a long time…
Acceptable:
Mos Def – Mathematics
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Unacceptable:
Mos Def – Umi Says
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Underrated: The Mind of Mannie Fresh
Mannie Fresh has been throwing it down since the 80′s, word to Gregory D, but he only started getting proper paper laying down tracks for the Cash Money Millionaires. His sound is almost a hybrid of early Timbaland with elements of early Miami hip-hop, but he’s distinctly his own guy. However, the guy who came up with the idea of an LP full of Mannie rhyming must have been the guy who thought ‘Umi Says’ would be a good single. Well, you’re right some of the time because, bizarrely, it works. Mannie isn’t really dropping any classic couplets here – there’s nothing you’d call a hip-hop quotable on the whole long-ass record. At one point he channels Method Man, rhyming “I came to show my chain, hardcore to the bling, let’s go inside where the bitches at”, which is immediately better than Meth, who rapped about the “astral plane”. Well, Meth, the astral plane doesn’t exist and the place where the bitches is at does, so Mannie wins that one. What makes this album so listenable is the big sound. It kicks into gear on the likeable opener ‘Conversation’ and never lets up. For those many people who like their modern hip-hop to subscribe to some ‘golden age’ template forged in 1987 or 1988, while hating on the South as if it sprung up in 2003, this type of sound arguably goes back further, to the kinds of tunes coming out of Miami in the mid 80′s. It’s fun, it’s about dancing, the lyrics are beyond simple. But when ‘Real Big’ kicks in, it’s over. ‘How We Ride’ is a little more heavyweight lyrically thanks to Bun B and David Banner, while Weezy is confined to two short but amusing tracks. The only attempt at depth comes on the mighty fine ‘Nothing Compares to Love’, which goes for epic and almost gets there. For those unconvinced, two more points. 1) There’s DJ cut-up track – you don’t get that from frickin’ Joell Ortiz. 2) ‘Chubby Boy’ is ridiculous. With a title like that, how could it not be? Even if you called a song ‘Chubby Boy’ and it was Saul Williams farting in a bubble bath, it’d still somehow be good. So, when you’re next flicking through the M’s, pull out Mannie, leave Mos where he is…
Acceptable all the way:
Mannie Fresh – Go Chubby Boy
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Mannie Fresh – Real Big
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Mannie Fresh – Conversation ft. Tateeze
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50 Responses to "Underrated / Underhated #1"
Didn’t you actually give B.O.B.S a good review in Fat Lace at the time, though?
Agreed on Mind Of Mannie Fresh. A concept album of Is Dead proportions. Other than the songs you mentioned, Fight Song is also superb.
Disagreed on there not being any classic lines on it, though. For example :
“Clear this bitch out, 95 shots
turn clubs into empty ass parking lots
hit that trick, slap that ho
split that n*gga straight down his afro”
The truest shit ever wrote
I agree with everybody, even Online Interracial Dating Community. Go Chubby Boy is the hotness, as sure as Drew Huge is almost certainly in a pub right now.
BOBS could have been a great EP, instead it was a below average album. For me, you can put Blackstar in the same category. There was 4 tracks of any worth on each album.
Ms Fat Booty tho, you can’t deny..
I once played Pussy Power to get my girlfriend in the mood for a ‘steamy sex session’ (props to NOTW), the irony escaped her and now i’m single………
yall fucked up.i mean youre right that mos’s album had some filler, but its dope. to say ms. fat booty was only good cause of the singer. yall must be fuckin deaf. youre ability to ignore lyrics is crazy, Mannie Fresh is good on the beats but a whole album of him rapping. hell no. how do you know the astral plane doesnt exist?
That Mos Def LP is indeed a pile of shit.
Oh that’s right, Drew, take down the spam posting so now my own post don’t make a lick of sense. Fuck you! This is beef! This is beef AND ONION!
we don’t ignore lyrics, Ignite, we just realise that sometimes you can lack lyrical chops – as Mannie does – and still come out with a better album than the superior rapper. You can’t fight the feeling. And as for the astral plane, if you can prove to us it exists, we doff our cap. We want evidence. We want double blind testing. We’re rationalists, y’all. And to celebrate that, we’ve just upped another Mannie track…
Rejected ideas for 2008:
serious album reviews & getting off the pipe
the only track I still play off that album is ‘Hip Hop’. good beat & lyrics. nice openener. wasnt overly keen on a lot of Rawkus stuff (inc Universal Magnetic) .D espite HHC going mad over at the time I wasnt convinced and stayed playing Wu, Ruff Ryders, Nore, Mobb etc
Yup. I’ve been telling people that Mos Def album is shit. I find it really fucking hard to get rid of records I paid good money for but when I finally got round to trading some shit, Wack On Both Sides was first in the bag.
Oh and Ms. Fat Booty was A) Wack B) the played out song that made me stop going to Hiphop clubs regularly. If Kanye made that shit people would be bitching about over obvious sample choices. That track and fucking Ugly Duckling ruined Hiphop nights for a good year, and lets face it, they weren’t the best nights before that.
ha ha LOL chortle chortle! I almost pissed myself reading this.
nah Fatlace, Mos Def’s was a dope LP at the time, minus umi of course…mannie LP has a few goodies on there, that mayor song being my fave and ‘real big’ of course. I like tracks off both LP’s, While Mos Def’s LP may not be anything near classic,Ms Fat Booty is a dope tune 9and not just coz of the aretha sample…who the fuck average clubber even knows it aretha when they dancing to that shit in the club, they just love the tune not stroking their beards, saying ‘nice use of the aretha sample’) and yeah. new world water,dope,diamond D’s beat pretty dope still, but mixed a bit funny (actually the whole Lp was mixed a bit light if you know wot I mean, I think even Mtahematics which is a dope track too weren’t even mixed by the usual people who do Primo’s shit).I just think you have something personal against Mos as you diss him aloads and often, why don’t you simple destroy your copy of the LP and listen to a better record with Mos Def on top formlike ‘high drama’ (original) which is a classic (and if you dispute that you need your ears cleaning out) or some of the old UTD shit or even the track off hislast LP about the cops, dunno what it’s called, I got rid of that LP as it was 99.9% wack, but I did like that tune, shit like that shows that Mos can sound good if he tries, lay off Black On Both Sides and diss his true abomination, his second LP, what the fuck was that all about, truly horrible, nearly as aweful as Kweili’s first 2 albums.
hideously overated LP – Dilated Peoples 1st LP, boring and formulaic as fuck, I just got rid of mine, but their previous 12″‘s were nice.
underated LP: Jungle Brothers ‘Raw Deluxe’ – Am I the only one feeling this heavyweight masterpiece?
ps. Sorry if that goes againt the ‘diss a early 90′s sounding LP and big up a crunk/south/hyphy’ kind of flex that you fat lace guys are doing.
Underated LP: Rob Swift ‘Sound Event’ – incredible, turntablism with inventivemess and soul.
hideously overated LP – Dilated Peoples 1st LP, boring and formulaic as fuck, I just got rid of mine, but their previous 12″‘s were nice.
underated LP: Jungle Brothers ‘Raw Deluxe’ – Am I the only one feeling this heavyweight masterpiece?
ps. Sorry if that goes againt the ‘diss a early 90′s sounding LP and big up a crunk/south/hyphy’ kind of flex that you fat lace guys are doing.
Underated LP: Rob Swift ‘Sound Event’ – incredible, turntablism with inventivemess and soul.
Underated: Kardinal Offishall – ‘Firestarter 1 -Quest For Fire’ LP -some exceptional production and an MC who is literally on fire (I’ve never heard that dude not sound amped) and his MC mates are all pretty fucking good too.
Under-hated – Little Brother -The Listening: truly unlistenable, choppy choppy, not quite chopped up right beats and boring rhymes. their latter LP’s are better.
Under-hated – 50 Cent ”Curtis”- a repeat of a repeat – desperate.
ps.big up bse, yes, ugly duckling were partially responsible for making hip hop nights wack. All there stuff is beyond under-hated, it should all be burned on a big bonfire along with the plethora of doo doo they paved the way for.
jesus
when you say ‘underrated’ do you actually mean ‘we ignored it when it came out cos it wasnt cool to like records from the South that werent by Outkast’
there was far too much Rawkus dick riding in the late 90s
overated- Jurassic 5
underated – ‘Ghetto Millionaire’ by Royal Flush (which I bought in Deal Real the same day as ‘Universal Magnetic’ I think)
I haven’t listened to ‘Black On Both Sides’ in years, which I suppose speaks for itself. I do remember being disappointed when it first dropped – but the hype around Mos Def was ridiculous at the time. I remember one letter in HHC around ’98 – many months before the album eventually dropped – said it would ‘save hip-hop’. Where do people come up with this shit?
Always agreed with ya’s about that Mos Def. But, yaknow, no matter how many times Public Enemy says it, people will believe the hype.
Rawkus put out 30% good records and 70% mediocre/wack ones in my opinion, you cant say that records like ’7xl’ or ‘physical jewels’ or ‘any man’ or ‘take that’ or ‘body rock’ or ‘the light’ or definition’ (pete rock remix) or ’5 star generals’ or ‘the blast’ etc are not good hip hop records, they are dope, better than a lot of that jiggy stuff that was coming out and as good as royal flush or other indie contemporaries, but then the quality control seemed to go right downhill, Rawkus put out some great stuff when they first started and most ‘seriois’ hip hop heads I knew at the time loved those records and it was mainly just westwood following sheep who liked all that jiggy/thug nonsense that was coming out back then.
erick sermon – battle, brick city kids, space cadilac, black attack – my crown, kool g rap – 1st n**ga….c’mon, these are great records, that aint no ugly duckling BS, that’s some big tunes, they were back then and still now I can play these and they sound good.
ps. list me some of these ruff ryders classics I slept on please so I can see what I was missing whilst I was buying records Rawkus put out, honestly, I wanna see if I was brainwashed by the media at the time or if I bought tunes I genuinley felt…
Yo lace da booze…that’s pre-2001 ruff ryders, the stuff that you were buying around 1998-2001 when I was buying rawkus stuff…not post 2001 jadakiss, styles p releases. Just out of interest so I can cop those classics I missed (I’m not even being sarcastic, I need to check the stuff I may have missed). I agree Wu were putting out dope sh*t then and mobb and NORE, but to me it was on a par with some of the better Rawkus stuff, but it’s the Ruff Ryders stuff from that 1998-2001 I’m missing in my collection. thanks.
i was checking Rawkus stuff like the records you mentioned but at the time it was kind of frowned upon to say you liked the Ruff Ryders/thug type stuff.
It used to bug me having to go Bongo for certain tunes but to Uptown and Wild Pitch for others.
What I like about the Hip Hop is the different styles within 1 genre (same reason I liked Drum & Bass). The UK press (ie HHC) werent really covering the music Westwood played but I’d rather check a quality gangsta record than a mediocre ‘backpack’ (for want of a better name) track anyway. some of the tracks worth checking include…
off the top of my head…
Jadakiss ‘Kiss Of Death’ off Ruff Ryders Vol 1
Jada, Snoop, Scarface & Yung Wun ‘WWIII’
Black Rob & LOX ‘Can I Live’ (off B Rob’s 1st CD)
Kasino & The LOX ‘Men Of Respect’
‘Ruff Ryders Anthem’ remix off DJ Clue ‘The Professional’
Harlem World (stop laughing) ‘Cali Chronic’ (theres a remix with Snoop aswell
‘Fantastic 5′ – LOX, CAmron, Fabolous & Nature (off Clue’s ‘Professional Vol 2′)
DMX & Cam’ron ‘Pull It’
Cam’ron & Prodigy ‘Losin Weight’ (offf Cam’s SDE)
‘Reservoir Dogs’ – Beanie, Sauce, Jay Z, LOX (off Jay Z ‘Hard Knock Life’ album)
Mic Geronimo, Ja Rule, DMX,LOX & Tragedy ‘Usual Suspects (theres another version of this with Cormega & Fatal instead of Ja Rule)
Sauce Money & Jay Z ‘Pre Game’ (think this is off the Sauce album)
i could list more but I assume you’re up on the big joints like ‘John Blaze’ & ‘Banned From TV’ etc
OK, yeah, thanks for that. I have some of them, but there’s a few I don’t which I’ll defo check out. I play some of that stuff more than the rawkus stuff now, but the rawkus shit still stays in the collection, it’s still got a place and still sounds good to me, depends what kind of mood I’m in.
ps. is nobody else feeling any of the rawkus stuff? Medina Green ‘Cross town beef’, U.N.’s ‘give it to y’all’? Black On Both Sides was a 3 track album and Hi Tek’s 1st LP was poor, smut peddlars LP was poor, High & Mighty LP was poor apart from the DJ track, but Rawkus did put out some great 12″‘s, I know it’s cool now to hate on that stuff now, but they put out some tunes.
theres definitely enough good stuff on Rawkus. I just think that they were a bit too hyped up at the time
well, they prob got a lot of coverage and hype as a) they seemed to be putting out a hell of a lot of records and the standard was high at first and b) they assumably had a lot of money for publicity, but they did have the product to back it up whereas some labels get loads of press hype and have never really put out anything very good.
please fatlace put up some new entries, this one’s getting a bit boring now!
[...] am a big fan of the blog fatlace but this post here is just outrageous. I’m actually sort of repulsed. Is Dave trying to make [...]
spot on. That mannie frsh is dope – one of the best DJ tracks in a while is ‘mannie fresh the dj’ love that. The tateeze joint is fresh too – as is she on the video.
Black of both thighs was wack to be sure.
oh and people, READ the posts correctly. Its amazing how people keep mis quoting the original posts!
” a much more socially conscionable album”
Brilliant! The defence of the backpack in the language of ignorance!
OLD Rawkus was great, loved it all – RA’s Flipside is one of the greatest verses commited to wax, before Kweli went wack and all thuglike, Reflection Eternal made some sublime music, 4000 Seasons was superb (even with EVIL D IS ON THE MIX! COME ON KICK IT! peppered all over it) and Sir Menelik’s Night Work – an acquired taste but loved it for its El-P produced dirtyness.
What happened to L-Fudge?
and BTW, bse, Ms Fat Booty is wack because it got overplayed at your local club????! Don’t put that in the same league as Ugly Dickling. (although i liked Fresh Mode) Some songs can be so great that they cross over, shit happens.
Yikes. This is 2nd only to the Lupe album review post for the Fat Lace comment section going into complete meltdown.
“and BTW, bse, Ms Fat Booty is wack because it got overplayed at your local club????! Don’t put that in the same league as Ugly Dickling. (although i liked Fresh Mode) Some songs can be so great that they cross over, shit happens.”
Huh? It crossed over? I’m talking about Hiphop clubs, in London, where all they played was Hiphop. Mostly independent Hiphop then. How is that crossing over? and I didn’t say it was wack BECAUSE it was overplayed I’m saying the clubs became wack because they overplayed IT. Distinction, smell me?
Shiiit, of the Rawkus stuff worth keeping theres some good shit there but the real next shit was on other labels. Rawkus’ impact on the music now is minimal. They brought in a lot of new people who bought t-shirts and then disappeared. The labels that made noises that would vibrate for years to come were Fondle ‘Em, ABB, Blunt, Official, labels like that. Rawkus was a whole lot of promise and hype that never delivered albums.
ABB, Fondle Em, they bought like 1 decent LP each!
cenobites was dope
SMH…That was dead Wong. (He says while listening to the Brilliant Mos Def debut BOBS)
Back to the astral plane BS, how can you dismiss a rhyme on the grounds it mentions something which may or may not exist? Kanyes always going on about selling millions, yet nobody I know has ever bought anything of his.
By your reckoning any talk of aliens, ghosts & religous deities is also out?
Where does that leave Kool Keith?
The beauty of the internet – people over-analysing flippant blog comments. As for Kool Keith, it leaves him as someone who hasn’t made a record worth wiping our collective arses on in over a decade.
Touche. But I’ll still back Meth and his Derek Achora based mumblings.
keith haters, I remeber you lot hating on him in HHC! He has made some great records in the last 10 years, black elvis, claybourne family and deisel truckers all had some great tracks on, the digital engineering LP was a bit lame, but ‘diamond district’ was dope. I guess Black Elvis was 10 years ago now, surely you’d not say no to a ‘static’ promo, I love that track. I reckon keith always says some stuff i wanna listen too, people talk of lupe as being intelligent and lyrical, but keith has some of the most intelligent humourous shit out there, he’s bitter, but rightly so, the industry is fucked. people need to recognise a true living MC legend.
Bumpkin: “ABB, Fondle Em, they bought like 1 decent LP each!”
A) No, Fondle ‘Em had two bonafide Long Players that rock shit and two long EPs that I won’t be parted from.
B) I never said they put out the most music I said they made noises that vibrated for years to come and for better or worse Dilated (Worse) and MF DOOM (Better) have been two of the biggest underground Hiphop artists of the last decade. Shabam Sahdeeq has not been.
C) C!
“The beauty of the internet – people over-analysing flippant blog comments.”
Surely the whole point of “Underhated” is to wind people up, no? You should be well pleased.
[...] Posted by THE LETTER G ^^ Wack On Both Sides this does a good job of explaining things > Underrated / Underhated #1 | Fat Lace Magazine to much hate [...]
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