Regular readers will know that, a couple of weeks back, we rapped about A.O.K’s classic ‘Shack It Up / The Signal’ 12″ as the inaugural entry in our ‘Rap Groups We Know Nothing About’ column. Well, that changed quickly, after we got some info from a reader and tracked down King MESH, the man behind that Profile jammie. We got in touch and talked about his graf background, recording his crew’s only 12″, not getting played by Red Alert, and what he’s up to now…

Before AOK were a rap crew, you were a NY graf crew, right?
To answer your question, yeah, we were a Graffiti crew. Basically, for anyone who knows something about graffiti, they will know AOK; it’s considered one of the best crew’s ever, I think it’s fair to say. There was Me, Reas, and Wolf as co-presidents and then the various members. But the music stuff was me and Flasha – a dude I met while messengering with his brother, Petey. He was from the South Bronx and knew all kinds of shit about old records, and I was an avid collector of breaks. We hit it off, bugging out and drinking forties. The band originally included Reas as an MC also, but he decided it wasn’t for him when there was a show that was approaching. Flasha also was a writer – big time in New York with his boy Pre-Sweet, TR nation – anyone from the city is aware of them. So it was a serendipitous match. I used to go to Downstairs Records, the capital of breaks and beats back in the day for those who knew. It was actually the record store that used to literally be downstairs in the subway station at Times Square 42nd st. but then moved to a one flight walk up a few blocks away. That was the shit, digging through forty-fives and looking for breaks. The people who worked there were DJ’s also and would hook you up with stuff when you came through and we were all chill with them. That was the spot. Run by old timers. DJ Duke of Denmark was a good friend for a while who worked there and DJ’d parties outside of work, and another fella Willy was a guy who played my record.

MESH taggin’ it up

How did the hook up with Profile come around?
The hook up with Profile came about indirectly through my Mom. She was a teacher at an alternative High School in NYC. She actually ran the school newspaper when Jean Michele Basquiat went there and he used to draw for it. But though I like his stuff a lot now, at the time we thought he was semi-fake graf. He used to write Samo back in the day and you would see some old tags, but for us, if you weren’t hitting trains it was kind of a con. We took the shit serious – and still do I suppose. Anyway, when I was performing she had invited a guy named Born who was looking to manage people who went to the school to the show because she told him I was doing Hip Hop or something. So he came, and said he had some hook-ups through a lady named Michelle Saunders who was part of the night life scene- sweet lady. So I was like, sure. They shopped my demo around and poof, that was what happened The two people who signed me are Claudia Casetta and Brian Chin. They had just come off the heels of the Rob Base, ‘It Takes Two’ signing so I believe they had a lot of cache at the label. My whole thing was that they don’t promote me as being white. I wanted to be judged solely by the quality of the tracks – and surprise people I suppose. Anyway, they barely did any promotion at that time in Hip Hop back then: They’d throw a couple thou at a record and hope they got results. That was how things worked back then. No one was making millions yet so that’s how it went.

Where was the ‘The Signal’ / ‘Shack it up’ 12″ recorded? Who produced it?
I produced the entire record myself, with input and scratching from Flasha. He had mad dexterous hands. His day job was cutting graphics at a printing company and he just had precision, what more can I tell you. It was a hard decision being that I had so many breaks to choose from. There was always the Ultimate Beats and Breaks series coming out all the time, but I always wanted to push the envelope and use something rare and unknown. Or unusual, thus the “pause” break on ‘The Signal’, a kind of beat not really used at all at that point. But I wanted to have the record be a hit also, thus the more straightforward groove of ‘Shack It Up’. Just had to be funky, You know. It was recorded in a guy’s house a previous friend of mine used to do some electronic music at. It might have been a more commercial sounding record if we had gone to some commercial studio but opted instead to have total control over the project in a comfortable environment.

Were you signed for just the one 12″, or was there an album deal?
There wasn’t an album deal, these were just one-off things. That’s how it worked. Barely anyone even had albums out at that time, or were just starting to.

How come we never heard another A.O.K. record?
I suppose I was a little broken up about the response to the record here and took a long time to follow up with new material to submit. The thing is, back then, if you didn’t get your song on rotation at either WBLS: Mr. Magic, Marley Marl or KISS: Red Alert, Chuck Chillout, that was it, though The Awesome Two did play it on their show which was great, but it was only one of the two other late night shows. Those 4 venues were essentially it. The story is thus: Willy, a DJ who worked at Downstairs Records was spinning at a club down in SOHO . My record had just come out and he said he was going to play it. I don’t even know if I had really heard it out, loud, for the most part. So he played it and afterwards I went up to him to ask what he thought. He told me, Yo, Red Alert came over wanting to know what it was. I was like, Oh shit, this is my big break for the record. So I decided to go over to him and introduce myself. You should have seen his face drop when he saw I was white. So that was that And even though the record companies sent copies over as they would typically do, he never played it. When I finally submitted more tracks about a year later, which the A&R put forward, their response was like, what took you so long – why haven’t you been in contact? That always bugged me out, because it’s like, is it really my job to keep up with you, But again that’s how it was back then: very patchwork. They considered the new material but declined.

Do you know how many copies it sold?
I think it sold maybe a couple thousand, which was decent for back then. The funny thing is, I had heard from some people we met over in England that they were playing my record some, And that it was on some Profile compilation over there. Lo and behold, I was never told about this, nor whether it was ever even released over there at all, and since the record wasn’t a mega-hit which is what I had wanted/planned I just didn’t care much – nor thought it was worth it to bitch about.

The tune was quite popular in the UK, and I know a lot of dudes in the States with it – did you ever tour and do live shows off the back of it?
Never did much live shows. That’s what’s great about you England-ers, you really organize shit in that regard. Here it’s just every man for himself, very brutal, more struggle. But that’s what makes our shit fresh historically because it’s not f’ing easy to pull it off. But I would have liked to do more.

Tim Westwood played your record in the UK often – as did John Peel – and mentioned you were bike messengers. Is that just apocryphal?
Around this time, if I remember me, Reas and a couple friends took a trip to England. Upon hearing that it was referenced that I was a bike messenger, I now remember that we went to the Tim Westwood radio show, I believe to do a promo. Trust me, we were spaced out in-the-now/moment kids so I apologize for being weak on chronology/detail. And I vaguely remember being asked what do you do and responding, on air I believe, I messengered – so that IS a true story. That might of been hooked up by Profile. We didn’t really know who was running the show regarding hip hop then over there, but I’m honored to have been played over there – apparently, a lot by what you’re telling me. Then we also, through some other hook up, did back-up vocals on a Derek B record while we were there but I think they didn’t use them or cut them down. It was fun though, we bugged out. That was just when Rebel Without A Pause came out, and also we got to see our pieces in The Spray Can Art book over there in a book store when it just came out. Good f’ing times. And I love to hear that John Peel played my tracks.

Do you have any unreleased tracks from that era?
I do have unreleased tracks actually – never thought about releasing them until now: Good shit, interesting shit. The most interesting one I can think of now is a Land Of The Lost – from the TV show – parody of sorts as a racial allegory, with the sleestaks being African American: “Slee-stak- and proud” and trying to make peace in the Prehistoric community. But as far as rap since that time I did in 2003 release ‘Player’ – available on iTunes – a collection of songs with me rhyming over vintage dub reggae : Real hard shit . With one track a graffiti anthem of sorts – and tackling a variety of things. It’s funny, it’s about an album’s worth of things, and I came up with some real dope rhyme phrasings for all of these dub grooves that are really advanced. They are kind of rough hewn and incomplete, but what I like doing most now is coming up with whole new avenues that I’d love to see other people explore. Laying the groundwork as such for whole new genres. I’d be more than happy to give you a couple of those tracks to post.

What did you do after the group split?
After the group split, well the group was just me and Flasha technically – so we still chilled a lot and worked on stuff, but you know, life happens. Last I saw him he was living in California. He seemed good. I’m happy about that.

Your new material is a world away from the A.O.K. sound, how would you sum it up?
Thanks for asking about my new material. Yeah I think I’m really onto something with it. Since the denouement if you want to call it that of Hip Hop, at least for my serious interest – though I do like Madlib and what he does – I’ve always been looking for the next thing. I did some Drum and bass/Jungle way back when and have some super deep tracks in that genre yet to be released. But this new Electro thing has been the most exciting thing to come along in a while I believe. It’s got energy and power that’s raw. And it depends on the new machine of our era to be used as an instrument: The compressor or limiter. The turntable was like that : a tool that then became an actual instrument. I think of all this new compressor/limiter manipulation evident in Electro like that. It’s an instrument in itself now that you’re playing and it brings about enormous power. So I’ve been applying that to the tracks I’ve been completing and I got to tell you I think I’ve been creating some really wild unprecedented stuff. I think of what I’ve been doing as real minimalist modern art that is comparable to the heaviest heavy funk of James Brown even in its power. I’ve coined the phrase The Rothko of Electro in reference to the former modern artist. It’s all about trying to capture that essence from way back when a track like ‘Apache’ would come on and people would have to just start up-rocking, wind milling etc. Or ‘It’s Just Begun’, or ‘Dance To the Drummer’s Beat’ or any of those tracks that just have that essence. That primal essence. And I think I’ve hit on it with these new tracks. I’d love to hear what your readers might think. I have to tell you, that the tracks are so engineered for power, and cut so hot – I’m kind of scared to tell you, but I must – that if you play them against most anything in your mp3 collection out loud I feel they will just sort of stomp all over them . That’s what they’re meant to do – but I know a lot of people don’t have a natural affinity for electronic/dance music: I’d ask your readers to give these a try on their systems – you won’t be disappointed. Also in tracks like ‘Let The Dance Begin’, I’ve come up with entirely new rhythm patterns. I really do want people to take these ideas and run with them. Like, I’d love for someone to play some scratch guitar over it, add their own vocals, whatever. I think there’s some real excitement. Though, having blown the sonics to the fullest with that and its companion track ‘I Want To Start’, I don’t know where else there is for me to go in that direction at the moment, so I will be doing something completely different again until the energy from doing those calms down a bit. They are really wild. And I’d love to share them with you guys via posting them. Thanks man for letting me talk about all of this. I can’t tell you how happy it makes me that my record really sounds like it made an impact with some people over there and elsewhere.
Cheers for the attention and to your readers
Peace out
MESH Rock
All Out Kings

Now here’s the music:

The Signal

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Shack It Up

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Download Here…

Download new MESH material here: (NB: MC Mesh now goes by the band name MESH, not to the confused with UK synth-pop band MESH whose albums are sometimes mixed in online. Get it right)

Let The Dance Begin

I Want To Start

Check MESH out at www.myspace.com/kingmesh